Mr. Bates vs The Post Office
In-Conversation Interview with Alex Boden by David Rocchio
The UK limited series Mr. Bates vs The Post Office has not only been a success. It forced the UK government to respond to a grave injustice.
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The show, which has been named “ITV’s Biggest Drama in over a decade,” focuses on a post office scandal where hundreds of ‘subpostmasters’ were wrongly prosecuted for fraud due to a faulty computer system. Several of the victims of the scandal killed themselves, many went to jail, and even more were driven into bankruptcy. The official stonewalling and obfuscation went on for more than a decade. Despite media coverage, the scandal did not spark outrage (followed by government action) until after ITV aired ‘Mr Bates.’
The limited series is four episodes. It was released from January 1-4, 2024. The episodes were all written by prolific UK documentarian, Gwyneth Hughes, and directed by James Strong. The show amassed a viewership of 10 million in a country of just 67 million. It was produced by Chris Clough and Patrick Spence for Little Gem and ITV Studios.
Gwyneth Hughes. Photograph: Christopher Thomond/The Guardian
Gwyneth Hughes is a former newspaper journalist from the north of England. Her work focuses on exposes based on historical events. One of her projects The Girl, which was about Alfred Hitchcock’s obsession with his main actress, won her a Golden Globe nomination. She began working with ITV in 2018 and has experienced a resurgence with Mr. Bates vs The Post Office. You can read more about her and the show here.
Hughes said, “I had to bring everything I’ve learned as a journalist and documentary filmmaker, and for the last 25 years as a dramatist, every single aspect of everything I’ve learned into play to make it work.”
James Strong photographed for the BBC
“In the three years working on this [drama], I have never got over that initial shock of disbelief. To this day, every victimized subpostmaster I meet, every appalling story I hear, makes me squeal with astonishment and rage…”
The director of the program, James Strong, is BAFTA-nominated for his work on Broadchurch, and he won a BAFTA for his work on Doctor Who. In 2007, he directed the autobiographical documentary Elton John: Me, Myself & I. Learn more here.
In this linked piece, Strong said, “to see [the show] grasp the whole nation and see it front page in the newspapers every single day since. To see the figures where we have seen - nine, 10 million come in and watch the first episode - it really is astonishing.”
How did a TV show achieve in one week more than investigative journalists and politicians did in more than a decade?
Well, to answer that question, UK-based Creative Producer (and long-time Stowe mentor and board member) Alex Boden and I started a conversation about the phenomenon of the show. We’ve kept the conversation going and elements of it are transcribed below.
DR: Our mission is to bend the world a bit through story. Mr. Bates vs. the Post Office has clearly done that. Why do you think this show caught on and triggered such an emotional response?
AB: The injustice of it all…! This is a true story of the most incredible misfortune to be inflicted on people like you and me who were just trying to do their job and have been brutally mistreated. They were powerless to defend themselves and nobody spoke out for them. And as a result, lives were ruined. Finally, their voices can be heard!
Alex Boden mentoring at the 2016 Lab
DR: What is it about the world Gwyneth created that makes the story more impactful than the news coverage that came before it?
AB: We see the sub-postmasters and their families and how much they suffered. It is so painful that there was hardly any coverage before the show was launched.
I have to mention Private Eye and Computer Weekly, both small journals but integral to keeping this story in their readers’ minds and circulating in the ether of the news, but the story somehow never made the headlines and so never reached the broader public’s awareness. The mainstream media dropped the ball completely!
As the story unfolds there are some very sinister revelations regarding how the Post Office was run. It has always been something of a national treasure but here, while the Government enquiry was taking place at long last, we learned that between 1999 and 2015 hundreds of hard-working subpostmasters had been prosecuted in criminal prosecutions in courts around the UK. They were all accused of stealing money from the Post Office when it was in fact a new accounting system called Horizon that had made errors in the Post Office’s favour. Overnight, these pillars of their small communities were hounded out of their jobs and accused of being thieves.
The show captures the chilling reality well, with a broad cast of mostly powerful, three dimensional characters, based on the actual sub postmasters and the hard realities of what happened to them.
DR: Do you have a sense of how the team got ITV on board? How did they put it all together? By the time the show was made the 'story' had been around—and as you say—ignored for years. How did they build the pitch and the project?
AB: I know that it was very complicated to get the series financed and into production for one of the UK terrestrial channels, ITV. Local interest stories are traditionally tough to finance when it is unlikely that they will also sell widely internationally. And nobody expected this story to sell! So it was not given a big budget, and my understanding is that several of the cast worked for reduced rates to pull it off. Add to that the increases in production expenses and costs in general being on the rise - and getting this made, post-Covid, would have been extra challenging.
However the beauty is that ITV is a UK free (not subscription) to air broadcaster, which meant that this series was available to everyone in the UK who has a TV. It needed to reach the broadest possible audience - and against all odds it did! Including on ITV’s video-on-demand streaming service ITVX .
So now the message is that audiences do want to watch these kinds of real life stories. Possibly more than anyone ever dreamed might be possible.
DR: It also seems to me Toby Jones was a brilliant choice to play Mr. Bates.
AB: Wonderful casting in Toby Jones as well as many of the other roles – Lia Williams, Monica Dolan, Alex Jennings, Ian Hart, Will Mellor and co. Together they delivered performances that are very accessible and relatable.
Toby Jones as Mr. Bates
Mr Bates is such a powerful character but in the most modest and self-effacing way. He does not want fame or money. He is prepared to battle silently for years and years against the injustice, on behalf of all the post office managers who suffered, even though he and his wife lost the post office as well as their home. Mr Bates lets fighting this cause take over his life, even when his wife becomes seriously ill - he still perseveres. A true hero – and an everyman at the same time. The facts are laid out relatively simply which delivers an incredibly powerful viewing experience.
DR: Is this a harbinger of more shows about ordinary people facing extraordinary challenges, or just an example of damn good TV? And a follow-up, do you see streamers looking for such content following 'Mr Bates' success?
AB: I hope so! It certainly should be. ITV launched BREATHTAKING, a new series about how the real Covid crisis unfolded in the NHS [National Health Service], shortly after MR BATES vs THE POST OFFICE.
The direct impact of this show while the Government enquiry was ongoing is nothing short of exhilarating! And cut to the success of the show which was quickly picked up by PBS - so you will soon be able to judge for yourselves in the USA.
DR: I’m fascinated by this story because it seems so easy to obfuscate and hide misdeeds in our complicated world, and then a show like ‘Mr Bates’ cuts through and aligns people. A story about the human condition broke through the noise and the BS and hit us in our common humanity.
In a New York Times article about the show, they write:
“According to the creators, drama is designed to appeal to your heart, which is why it provoked such a reaction from the audience. Also, the fact that this is a true story that has never really been discussed before impacted the reaction of the audience.”
So, I assume, we take heart and push forward? Any other words of advice/encouragement/support for our readers Alex? And thank you for taking the time to talk about this with me.
Cast of Mr. Bates vs The Post Office photographed from ITV
AB: It’s a pleasure to catch up with you David. And I especially enjoyed how the series kept on growing while we were talking … leading to the sale to PBS as well as many other countries around the world. Hopefully this will inspire local broadcasters and networks to be more open to similar local stories in the future. Stories that connect and that matter!
Creative Producer Alex Boden
Alex is an award-winning UK Producer and Executive Producer specialising in international production, with extensive experience working with the USA, Germany, the rest of Europe and Japan. He launched Pistachio Pictures in 1999. Recent productions include 2 seasons of the (HBO) Max crime drama series TOKYO VICE starring Ansel Elgort and Ken Watanabe, as well as all seasons and films of SENSE8, the ground-breaking Netflix series directed by the Wachowskis and Tom Tykwer, for which he was nominated for a Producers Guild of America Award in 2019.
Alex’s other recent credits across include: Netflix fantasy/ adventure series CURSED, created by Tom Wheeler and Frank Miller; Terence Malick’s latest film, starring Sir Ben Kingsley and Sir Mark Rylance; the fantasy epic CLOUD ATLAS starring Tom Hanks and Halle Berry; the music documentary feature PULP: A FILM ABOUT LIFE, DEATH & SUPERMARKETS; Three films for the Scandi-Noir film anthology INTRIGO; and the Lionsgate / Fantasporto award-winning thriller THE HOLDING.
Fluent in English, French and German, Alex is a Board Member and former Chair of The Production Guild of Great Britain (PGGB) and also proud to be a Board Member and Mentor at Stowe Story Labs (Vermont, USA). He is a voting member of BAFTA, the European Film Academy (EFA) and the Producers Guild of America (PGA). Alex loves travel, music, yoga and supports various charities, including the Woolf Institute.
Season 2 of TOKYO VICE is currently streaming on Max.
Interview by David Rocchio, Stowe Founder & Director
David is an attorney, writer, and filmmaker. David conceived and co-produced The Gun Shop, an Emmy-nominated, glowingly reviewed single-episode documentary which premiered primetime on the UK Channel 4’s Cutting Edge series and then played worldwide. David’s award-winning short films have played internationally, including Cannes Short Film Corner, Italy’s Capalbio International Short Film Festival (Best of Capalbio), and 2015 Los Angeles Independent Film Awards (finalist best screenplay). He has several feature and TV scripts, which have all placed extremely well in top script competitions and which he is now bringing to market.
As a practicing attorney, David worked both as a litigator and served as legal counsel to Vermont’s Governor Howard Dean, M.D. He consults with businesses, nonprofits, and government agencies on mission, internal culture, and complex problem solving. David ski patrolled at Stowe Mountain for 22 years, and in addition to screenwriting and filmmaking, for 20 years David wrote a monthly column about life for central Vermont newspapers. He lives in Stowe, Vermont.